Music or Ministry?
Hey all. I know you never listen to the podcasts I recommend, but I really feel like this is one you need to hear, so I transcribed it for you. This is from Derek Webb's Podcast #2. I took excerpts and cleaned it up a little for easier reading. I know this is really long, but this is purposefully a light text week on my blog and it's an easy read. I really highly recommend that you read the whole thing, because he's got some really insightful comments, and trust me... it's not easy to transcribe a 14 minute podcast! Read it, and then let me know what you think.
“The thing I love about artists like Elliott Smith, or like Bob Dylan, for instance, is another guy I can’t leave home without, or even U2. The thing about them is that they’re so honest, with no care for their reputations, they’re just so unbelievably honest. And there’s something about listening to an Elliott Smith record, for me, a guy who was an addict, a guy who was a recluse; he had a lot of issues socially and was really terribly insecure, and I really appreciate, when I listen to the records that led up to his death, that you see that all over those records. You hear all about what he’s struggling with and the things that are just killing him. I mean, while it was tragic, it was no surprise to people who followed his music. And the difference between that and people in my industry, more in what’s categorized as the Christian music that’s out there, is that right before the big tragedies in the marriages and in the personal lives of the people in my industry; it’s a shock, because we’re not hearing about it. Because we’re not honest about it. Because we’re so fearful that people will know who we really are. Because more is wrapped up in trying to look like Jesus that to look like people who need Jesus. Which I think is a tragedy. I’m not like Jesus. I’m not at all, actually. I’m a wreck of a person. And I need him; without him I’d be lost. And I would rather people see my potential losses than people see my made-up, kind of fictional righteousness. It doesn’t get me anywhere. Cause if that’s all I show to them, then they’re gonna be shocked when they find out that I’m kind of a wreck of a person. That’s who I am, and I’d rather there be no pretense about whether I’m a good person. Whether or not I’m someone you should really listen to. I’m not at all. But I know a guy.
“I think one of the reasons that it’s important for artists in the church to be more concerned with making good art than with making explicit art is because for one, art is the primary way by which people engage each other’s world views. And I’m afraid as artists in the church, if we’re not making good art, we’re not going to get invited into those worldview discussions. Because where those are happening are in the Billboard Top 200. You know, those discussions are happening on the bar circuit in our towns and our communities. It’s happening on MTV. There are a lot of artists with a lot of world views who are making great art, and therefore have a platform to discuss their worldview. As Christians, the reason that people aren’t listening to what we have to say about the world is not because they don’t want to hear us because our faith and because of Jesus. It’s because our art is terrible. It’s because we’ve got to put more importance on making good art. Nowadays, the church is about five years behind pop culture, and it’s no wonder the church is seen as kind of irrelevant and one-dimensional. I really don’t think it’s overstating to say that is because our art is substandard. I think if the church was behind making better art, we would find a place where we could discuss our worldview and culture. I really do. I don’t think it’s going to take better programs, or better methods or multi-million dollar buildings to draw people in, to see what we’ve got. I think it’s going to take, first and foremost, our artists going out and making really respected and good art. Excellent art; doing it with excellence. Not all artists have to engage in full-time ministry. Some simply need to make great art. And I think it’s a double standard, if you play music, immediately the word ministry comes into it… “I love your ministry.” What do you know about my ministry? I, like all Christians, have a desire that disciples would be made and that people might come to faith, and that’s something I concern myself with that in my community and my personal life, but I’m a singer/songwriter. I’m just trying to make great art. I don’t really see this as ministry. I see this as the work that I have to do and use the gifts God has given me to do it. And as an individual, I do care about making disciples, just as you do in your work, but this isn’t full-time ministry for me. This is my work, and there’s nothing wrong with that. We need to have eyes to see the way that God might work in the world, and it may not be by way of all the categories that we put on Him.”
“The thing I love about artists like Elliott Smith, or like Bob Dylan, for instance, is another guy I can’t leave home without, or even U2. The thing about them is that they’re so honest, with no care for their reputations, they’re just so unbelievably honest. And there’s something about listening to an Elliott Smith record, for me, a guy who was an addict, a guy who was a recluse; he had a lot of issues socially and was really terribly insecure, and I really appreciate, when I listen to the records that led up to his death, that you see that all over those records. You hear all about what he’s struggling with and the things that are just killing him. I mean, while it was tragic, it was no surprise to people who followed his music. And the difference between that and people in my industry, more in what’s categorized as the Christian music that’s out there, is that right before the big tragedies in the marriages and in the personal lives of the people in my industry; it’s a shock, because we’re not hearing about it. Because we’re not honest about it. Because we’re so fearful that people will know who we really are. Because more is wrapped up in trying to look like Jesus that to look like people who need Jesus. Which I think is a tragedy. I’m not like Jesus. I’m not at all, actually. I’m a wreck of a person. And I need him; without him I’d be lost. And I would rather people see my potential losses than people see my made-up, kind of fictional righteousness. It doesn’t get me anywhere. Cause if that’s all I show to them, then they’re gonna be shocked when they find out that I’m kind of a wreck of a person. That’s who I am, and I’d rather there be no pretense about whether I’m a good person. Whether or not I’m someone you should really listen to. I’m not at all. But I know a guy.
“I think one of the reasons that it’s important for artists in the church to be more concerned with making good art than with making explicit art is because for one, art is the primary way by which people engage each other’s world views. And I’m afraid as artists in the church, if we’re not making good art, we’re not going to get invited into those worldview discussions. Because where those are happening are in the Billboard Top 200. You know, those discussions are happening on the bar circuit in our towns and our communities. It’s happening on MTV. There are a lot of artists with a lot of world views who are making great art, and therefore have a platform to discuss their worldview. As Christians, the reason that people aren’t listening to what we have to say about the world is not because they don’t want to hear us because our faith and because of Jesus. It’s because our art is terrible. It’s because we’ve got to put more importance on making good art. Nowadays, the church is about five years behind pop culture, and it’s no wonder the church is seen as kind of irrelevant and one-dimensional. I really don’t think it’s overstating to say that is because our art is substandard. I think if the church was behind making better art, we would find a place where we could discuss our worldview and culture. I really do. I don’t think it’s going to take better programs, or better methods or multi-million dollar buildings to draw people in, to see what we’ve got. I think it’s going to take, first and foremost, our artists going out and making really respected and good art. Excellent art; doing it with excellence. Not all artists have to engage in full-time ministry. Some simply need to make great art. And I think it’s a double standard, if you play music, immediately the word ministry comes into it… “I love your ministry.” What do you know about my ministry? I, like all Christians, have a desire that disciples would be made and that people might come to faith, and that’s something I concern myself with that in my community and my personal life, but I’m a singer/songwriter. I’m just trying to make great art. I don’t really see this as ministry. I see this as the work that I have to do and use the gifts God has given me to do it. And as an individual, I do care about making disciples, just as you do in your work, but this isn’t full-time ministry for me. This is my work, and there’s nothing wrong with that. We need to have eyes to see the way that God might work in the world, and it may not be by way of all the categories that we put on Him.”
posted by Jill at 8:20 PM
1 Comments:
Jill, that was EXCELLENT! He is very smart and passionate and also very talkative, like you! It is what I have been telling you for a long time, your music and passion for the lord are gifts you should use. Music touches people in a way nothing else can, you've got it Jill.
His words are very moving. I will have to listen to his music again and see if that carries over to his music.
Post a Comment
<< Home